This little exchange has been in my head since listening again to In Praise of Maintenance (Update) by Freakonomics.

It happens at the end of the podcast, when Chris Lacinak from digital archiving company AVPreserve is giving the host an outline of how their service approaches its clients needs…

Chris Lacinak: What is the ideal outcome of this project that you envision?

Stephen Dubner: [in a very convoluted way, explains that he want’s everything that he’s ever documented or created for written and audio work to be preserved and made easily accessible, in a system that he can then also add to in order to prevent future inaccessible archive backlogs].

Chris Lacinak: It’s like the ultimate vision of being able to find everything easily and accessible. And if we think about that as the ultimate outcome, we will realise that there is a lot of steps in between there and here. We look at this project as Phase 1 – the first steps. Do you have any thoughts on the outcome of this phase? What defines success for you? … It’s all about prioritisation, one step at a time.

Dubner goes on to joke after this, and not respond productively to what Lacinak said, which is a shame, because that’s one of the best little routines for explaining the strategy for explorative, iterative, agile, and ‘known-unknown’ type work that I’ve ever heard.

1. What is the ideal outcome of this project? What’s the vision? What do you dream for? What if we could do magic. Where are we aiming
2. It’s like the ultimate vision of being able to find everything easily and accessible. Help to reframe the vision. The ‘ultimate outcome’ as he calls it. Establish what’s clearly agreed on.
3. And if we think about that as the ultimate outcome, we will realise that there is a lot of steps in between there and here. Use that agreed vision to reveal the scale and complexity of the project. Arrive together at the diagnosis of how far off that is.
4. We look at this project as Phase 1 – the first steps. Take the agreed starting point and label it Phase 1. Allude to more phases without need to number them or suggest timelines. Mention ‘steps’ also, to conjure the logic of ‘a journey of a thousand miles beginning with a single step’, without saying it or making it feel daunting. And introduce this idea of multiple phases before listing any specifications or deliverables.
5. Do you have any thoughts on the outcome of this phase? What defines success for you? With the project owner now set on the idea of phases, and ready for a journey, and understanding that they can’t get the ultimate outcome right away, you ask them (don’t tell them) to think about outcomes (not features) for this first phase, and what would make this first step successful (for them).
6. It’s all about prioritisation, one step at a time. Say the quiet positive part out loud. Make clear that your priority is to help with their prioritisation. A step by step journey toward their ideal outcomes.

These few sentences are a masterclass in persuasion, that I think a lot of UCD and agile project based designers would do well to learn from.

Don’t start with your philosophical priority for being the champion of user needs, before the project owner tells you their own.

Don’t instantly share the rude awakening that you’re only going to deliver a minimal set of features at first – and that you expect they’ll be proved wrong once people test them.

And don’t ignore thinking about how they’ll feel, when they realise they can’t instantly achieve their vision.

I’m banging the three drums of my Venn diagram again here: Successful design involves psychology, communication, and motive management.

I wonder how much Lacinak had practiced and refined this spiel?